All day I’ve scanned the bands and DX Cluster on both CW and SSB on all bands for Cocos-Keeling (VK9CE) and guess what? Nothing. How frustrating to invest and build a station, put aluminum in the sky, get a little goo, and pffft – nothing. VK9CE has been on that Ham Radio destroying computer software mode, all day. You know the mode where their unmanned computer talks to your unmanned computer. Don’t think it happens? Do your homework as it most assuredly does. They, nor you ever heard a thing. The automated software does the scripted connectivity.
Don’t worry you little pistols. There’s no need for an antenna. No need for some power. Hell, no need for a microphone or a CW key (or keyer)! You just need some computer software where your computer can earn ARRL’s DXCC in a day!
FT8 is destroying Ham Radio. Note, I didn’t say FT8 is killing Ham Radio, I said it is destroying it.
I saw the upcoming Bouvet DXpedition is all about FT8, even more so than they were on Conway Reef. If it comes down to it, I’d rather die with 339 DXCC entities than work Bouvet on FT8. Not going to happen. From the Rebel DX Group site I read today, “We will be testing some our new ideas to operate 5 different stations on FT8 (FOX & HUND) at the same time by 1 operator.”
As co-founder of the Rebel DX Group a few years ago, I walked away when it became clear FT8 was ruining what I consider “Amateur Radio”. I handed over my domains and Website I spent hundreds, if not a thousand hours developing. I do not want to be affiliated in any way with DXpeditions that operate more than 20% or so FT8. And I won’t donate either. You FT8’ers can pull your own weight and subsidize these computer efforts. It’s only fair, right?
FT8 isn’t rebellious, it’s stupid. In my opinion FT8 is like a self-driving car. No operating skills required. How much fun is sitting in a car you’re not driving? You get my point?
And a pleasant reminder. This is my Blog. You don’t like it – turn the dial. Go tell the world how FT8 is saving Ham Radio on your own social media.
N0UN
🙂
Well said. And so true.
Thanks
73
Well said. Thanks for taking the time to write what a lot of us think about FT8.
One thing for shure. With FT8 HAMradio will never be the same ever again. 73, Bas
I agree. And equal to this, is operating remote… People are operating remote from a cell phone or an iPad in some state, and remoting into Haiti, or Croatia. Does the ARRL recognize this as a ligitimate contact ???? Whether it is or not is not the biggest issue. The biggest issue is people think it is legitimate!! Otherwise they would not do it !! Sorta like the baseball players on steroids, that is cheating. So now we are in an age we see cheating on ham radio. If the control operator is NOT at the antenna site, not at the DXCC location- that is CHEATING !!!!
Hi Dan. I agree. The only way to combat this nonsense is staying active and embracing our SSB/CW brothers and sisters. I will ALWAYS give someone calling CQ a contact, even if they are not interested in a QSO etc. or I’ve worked them 10,000 times. We need to stick together and keep moving.
Roger that! I’m 100 percent CW.
Hey Dan… I agree 100%. And I am 99% remote. My home station has HOA regulated antennas (T8 at 12′ off the ground and a 40M sloping dipole). I liked remoting so that my friends in TDXS could contest on my remote station from their house. I miss the days were we would all get together at the lumber yard or K5RC’s QTH, or NR5M. Now nobody wants to do that. I think the right answer is a “distributed” category… that is starting to happen. All local vs all remote or a mix like k1ttt
Nice to you active on your blog!
Oops – nice to see you active on your blog
I agree 100%. Anyone says they worked someone on ft8 is lying. Their computer worked someone. We gotta stay strong and persevere. I am on SSB everyday and will continue to work even common DX and call CQ
So true. I want to talk to hams
Rachel,not watch my computer to see who I made contact with.
Jim WB0AAM.
Agree fully. 100% cw here. Mostly QRP and likely to continue in this mode untill the bitter end.
Me too. 100 percent CW.
VK9CE was not a 100% FT8 DXpedition. They were also active in phone and had sometimes good signals in this part of Europe. Our first phone QSO (20m) didn’t show up in Club Log, so I made a “just-to-be-sure” QSO 2 days later. Now both 20m QSO’s are in the log. Dupe, sorry!
Let’s hope the A25RU-crew will be a lil’ more active in SSB the upcoming days. Phone (on HF) is even less than 1% of all their QSO’s.
One computer talking to another computer. What’s the point? Boring.
I am considering to say goodbye to HF,it s a shame. Why should I invest in antennas etc. If there is no fun of Dx ing.
I’m staying on HF, but am 100 percent CW as long as there is anyone on that mode to converse with.
Some of you writing comments that haven’t been approved must not have read my last paragraph, “And a pleasant reminder. This is my Blog. You don’t like it – turn the dial. Go tell the world how FT8 is saving Ham Radio on your own social media.”
🙂
N0UN
Yeah, Lumpy, I have to agree… FT8 is just a way of staring at a computer screen with no radio skills needed. Thank God I have my #1 Honor Roll plaque (NOV 2015). And… it took me 20 years of work to achieve it. Not complaining, but FT8 is like decaf… missing the soul of what it is you are doing. I simply do not “get it” and it holds no interest for me. Also, all that remote shit… I mean… REALLY, GUYS AND GALS!!!??? Whatta bunch of crap. Might as well write them a letter and ask for a QSL card without bothering to make the QSO. HAM RADIO LITE !!! GIVE ME A BREAK… ARRRRRGHH!
WSPR is also part of the slow decay of ham radio. Buy a $50 widget, connect power and an antenna, boom, you’re now getting reception reports from all over the world.
But wait .. un-monitored HF beacons are illegal, right? This fact seems to escape the buy-and-forget consumer ham, who likely just memorized multiple-choice test answers to pass the tests.
Look at the statistics recently published by ClubLog. Terrible ! 60% of the entered QSOs in 2020 were FT8 (https://twitter.com/g7vjr/status/1375902509982748672/photo/1). The recent C92RU operation is another example: 30k FT8, 15k CW+SSB and they were destroying the higher CW portion of the 80m band with the FT8 pile-up by choosing a non-standard frequency around 3560 or even lower …
One of the reasons for its popularity is the EPIC mistake by ARRL to allow FT8 QSOs for DXCC-mixed. Should only have been for DXCC-digi.
So, let’s be active in real human brain modes, become member of a CW club, etc. !
As one of the VK9CE team, I can say that we were all on the island, and that the operation was not automated. With Fox and Hound mode, you actually need to be there or it just sends out calls and never answers (this did happen for about 10 minutes once when I forgot to switch off split after being on SSB so wasn’t receiving responses). We did around 30% of our contacts on SSB and CW. It is a difficult path from the USA to that part of the world and we were doing a budget operation and operated with what could bring to the island in excess baggage, which unfortunately meant that we didn’t get many SSB contacts into the USA.
On a different note, When I operated from VK8 in the early 90s, (long before digital modes were a thing), the bands were almost completely dead. Now the bands are just as dead, but there is lots of activity on FT8 as well…..
Me, given the choice between a ragchew on SSB or a contact on FT8, I’ll take SSB every day. If I’m just trying to give as many people as I can a rare DXCC entity in a short period of time, I’ll take FT8 over nothing every time.
Look at DJ1AA FT8 Robot from Germany!
It’s an interesting conundrum.
I’d rather see FT8 activity and people on the air using the bands than nothing and those people giving up on the hobby or governments using inactivity as an excuse to take frequencies off us.
For a lot of town/city based Hams there are antenna restrictions and electrical noise at a level which makes SSB almost impossible unless the signals are S9. How many S9 DX signals are there at the bottom of the sunspot cycle when condx are poor? FT8 makes those marginal paths with limited equipment possible. Again, it’s better than nothing.
For bands like 6m using Es, FT8 has opened up another 2-3 hops allowing contacts down to 25dB below the noise. I personally have learned a lot more about propagation.
But FT8 does get really, really, REALLY boring after a while. There’s no opportunity to actually *meet* anyone and get to know them and a bit about where they live. I recall regular long QSOs with Ron 7Q7RM, really getting to know him as a friend, a couple of hour-long QSOs with VP6YL during which I learned and understood more about Pitcairn Island and the way of life than any book could have taught me. Oh, and there are so many more.
Perhaps the sheer number and speed of FT8 QSOs makes the stats look like they are taking over amateur radio, but I really think there’s room for both.
As N0UN says, if you don’t like FT8, turn the dial. There be humans!
Most people want it all with out hard work. No holes to dig, concrete to poor and no blood sweat and tears. Bobby, K7FX/K6FU. The FT-8 people need to create an FT-8 Cluster for computer to computer communication. QRZCQ has become a bulletin board for FT-8 and 95% of the post are from a single person working ten countries in a couple of minutes.
I believe the fcc should clump all digital modes that are like ft8 wisper,etc to one band. Even if they need to create one so all digital modes are on that band only.CW allowed throughout liek all bands but only digital modes after that.Then bring out a license for the digital group so they can group up onto that band.Then free up the rest of the bands by banning digital modes on all other bands.Traditional modes,like sstv,rttty,and other modes which allow a full qso,would be the mainstay. I have dabbled with ft8 but now i use it to help spot band openings for working CW
I agree. the computer to computer bots is not ham radio it is like using your computer and listening to a rare dx station on internet,click the button and boom qso.
its boring,my son asked me “whats the point?”,Im a CW guy ,sometimes straying to ssb when i hear an interesting net,etc. I agree on all points
FT8 has changed Six Meters significantly since it was introduced to the band around 2015. The drop off in SSB and CW was noticeable on the band, except during the ARRL June VHF contest. What is strange is that when the digital signals reach a high enough db level, operators should check out CW at that point.
I was however, encouraged by the significant amount of activity this past summer on CW and SSB during ten transatlantic openings on the Six Meter band. We will see what happens if F2 comes in at some kind of force on Six Meters in a few years….
I hear you N0UN, but I think it’s to late to put the genie back in the bottle. We will see what happens when the cycle opens up and the big guns start transmitting on mostly phone. If Ft8 is still up there in usage then the fat lady has sung! Personally I tried the mode and learned how to use it only because I think a Ham Operator should be prepared to use any tool at their disposal in case of an emergency. I won’t taint my logs with any DX contacts using FT8 because it is such a dull and soulless mode of operation. Do I have the Balls to let something like Bouvet pass if it was only FT8? I don’t know, but I do know it would be a last resort.
“I think a Ham Operator should be prepared to use any tool at their disposal in case of an emergency.”
I agree with your comments, but I’m puzzled by what good FT8–with zero opportunity to communicate any message–would do in an emergency.
FT Hate is worthless. Even MORE worthless in any emergency situation.
Calling cq for hours on end on an open band and getting one or maybe no qso, while the FT8 segment is filled to the brim with computers pinging away, damn shame it is.
And to think that dxpeditions costing hundreds of thousands of dollars will be focused on ft8, that’s a tragedy in the making.
Hopefully they will start getting bored with it soon enough and dig out their microphones and keys again..
On a personal level, I’ve worked hard for my modest DXCC count. I’ve worked 312 entities through a developed level of operating skill and have become a better operator at tuning, listening, accurately copying, and sending CW, phone, and RTTY. These are skills that make me more useful in an emergency and as someone serving the public.
Nowadays, what I’ve worked so hard for is cheapened by FT8 ops who “earn” DXCC in one weekend without developing any appreciable skills whatsoever.
No Joe Taylor mode here! All banned on my remote stations since day 1… W5FMH Chenango Ranch, TX/ K0DS Steamboat Springs, CO/ W5GMD Boling-Lago, TX all on RH.
In recent months, the Ten Meter SSB and CW portions have been pretty active with DX stations. I do hear the FT8 tones at 28.074 MHz, but feel that F2 conditions are pretty good for CW and SSB QSOs to occur.
I got back into ham radio recently after 15 years of inactivity. New bands, numerous digital modes, lots of fantastic equipment and new activities were just some of the things that I had to digest in my mind. After buying and setting up my new equipment, I started communicating. I had loved my early digital modes of RTTY, Packet Radio and a few others and wanted to get into some digital communication again. I got set up with an interface for my radio and the software to run it and I was impressed. However, except for CW and very little of RTTY modes, the bands were crowded with basically 99 percent of FT8 mode traffic. The various other digital modes were interesting but nobody was using them! I wanted keyboard to keyboard communication, but I found out that FT8 was almost completely automated and talking to a ham was taken out of the loop. You could be dead for 5 years and your equipment could still be making contacts!!! I think that FT8 has a place but, for me, it is not on the ham bands. I am now relegated to CW and voice unless things drastically change and hams start getting off of the FT8 band wagon.
I operated on Ten Meters CW this past weekend during the ARRL DX CW event. What I found interesting was that the band was wide open from early morning into the early evening, and I found myself stepping over the digital FT8 stuff on 28.074 and working many DX stations in the 28.100 MHz range and above. It just seem a bit strange to stay on digital when CW and SSB modes are doing well.
I certainly am interested in going on a CW/SSB/RTTY only dxpedition.
Anyone got any ideas or wanting to join me?
Great idea! Please keep me posted.
Bill, K5WG
FT8 is maybe useful for something, but NOT HAM RADIO! C’mon, who are we kidding? Vintage CW and SSB takes skill and a real radio station, no computer needed. When you want to operate real radio, shut the computer off and get back in the hobby. Just my 2c worth.
K0JW
FT8 requires no skill and its a shame that its counts towards awards same as ssb and cw operation. A cheap shortcut with lack of human involvement with exception of turning computer on. Maybe if youre physically handicapped, unable to operate in conventional
fashion. Damn shame its gotten to the point people dont use a mic or a key anymore. Best thing is to not allow them to get same points as a real operator whose putting real effort in.
No, you didnt work that station, your computer did.
Wow, couldnt agree more. FT8=computer to computer, no personal interaction.
ARRL needs to ratchet down and stop any awards for the digital mode stuff. Its embarrassing.
And hearing bragging about “made contact to exotic dx station” ? No friend, your computer made the contact. Glad hams are speaking out, its frustrating.