The Big FT8 Money Grab. DXpeditioners have turned to the laziest, easiest way to make money – FT8.
Somebody has to say it – DXpeditioners have figured out they can turn on their automated FT8 computer scripts and make more money than actually operating their Ham Radio’s on Phone or CW.
“Money for nothin’ and chicks for free”. AND the ARRL approves because they’re profiting handsomely too. All those lazy, computer scripted 24/7 hour text message Q’s count for their DXCC program. Those indoor dipole non-human mode stations are stumbling over themselves to pay ARRL membership dues and pay again for DXCC Credits. The ARRL and DXpeditions figured out a way to print money.
Lazy DXpeditioners claim there’s nobody on CW or Phone to work. Ever notice the FT8 spots from these DXpeditions never stop? All day, all night, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week the computers are knocking it down. On the TN8 DXpedition I watched every night up to 9 unmanned computers went to FT8, only for most to bounce back to Phone and CW a little after their sunrise when the humans woke up. Completely and totally automated. Wake up with another 5,000 Q’s in the log. They cannot resist the lure of easy money.
But shhhhhh! It’s the Big Secret. Nobody talks about it, nobody wants to admit it’s happening. Every man for himself, just get those easy DXCC credits while you’re at dinner or outside mowing the grass – and for the DXpeditioner – collect those $5 to $10 Paypal’s per LoTW request while you sleep. 100,000 Q’s, 40,000 unique, or digital, or ATNO, or bandfills are how much at $5 a LoTW request? Do the math homie. All for a computer Q with a computer digital file upload (LoTW). That’ll pay for a DXpedition, won’t it?
Current DXpedition T22T with over 98% of his 83 thousand Q’s are FT. VK9LAA, ZD9W all following suit, all on FT8. Fake Ham Radio at best. Lazy, mindless, computer scripted text messaging is now a profitable endeavor.
Don’t deny it – Lazy is, as lazy does.
Don’t bother me for “up front” donations or ask my companies to “sponsor” these embarrassing “TXTpeditions.com” anymore either. You FT8ers go pay to play and leave me out of that crap – go to FT8Forum.com and play there, lol. You want my Club Log OQRS? $100 USD!
N0UN (a real DXer, not a “TXTer” pretender)
I thought it was against part 97 to use ham radio as an outlet to make money….same thing with these pay to play remote ham radio stations… how is that allowed….hmmmmm
“Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.”
Indeed! Send lots of money to operate somebody else’s station, then send more money to get a confirmation.
N0UN
Hmm, what about equipment dealers like MFJ, HRO, WX0B,DX engineering etc. who make their living out of ham radio?
Bunch of BS, time for a class action lawsuit
Very interesting. There are many ramifications on that subject
Hello, do you authorize me to translate it into Spanish and place it on my QRZ page? . TU
Absolutely! Enjoy!
N0UN
Excelente análisis! Es hora de hacer algo, que todo el mundo se divierta está bien, pero hacer dinero con el hobby y de esta manera no debe ser. Si alguien quiere ser radioaficionado de verdad, debe intentar al menos aprender CW alguna vez
¡Gracias, estoy de acuerdo 100% Gustavo!
I said this in another post, but here’s the challenge:
“I ran a few numbers.
Recently Completed TXTpeditions:
T22T – 96.7% of 102,248 Q’s are FT
5X3K – 58.5% of 60,190 Q’s are FT
Current TXTpeditions:
ZD9W – 91.4% of 48,968 are FT
W8S – 49.3% of 45,549 are FT
Current DXpedition:
T2C – 30.5% of 15,192 Q’s are FT (perhaps a real DXpedition but more likely T22T previously ran almost 100K Q’s FT).
I challenge ANYBODY to prove this FT is NOT about the 100 dollar bills. If it isn’t about the money then why don’t they just take a moment to upload their log to LoTW? There’s no cost to upload to LoTW, ZERO. Hell, every one of them constantly uploads to Club Log already, right? And if it weren’t about the money why do US LoTW users have to JOIN and MAINTAIN membership to the ARRL to get their DXCC numbers “credited”? Fiddy a year PLUS the LoTW Credits and LoTW Submissions. For logs already in their system!
Follow the money. What a lazy, embarrassing scam.
N0UN”
Yeah it’s a big money making tool and it will never stop so long as the ARRL is getting their cut.
charging for qsl is not good. like you said upload computer is free, so why charge for qsl? wait for a year for free lotw is not good either. you upload to clublog.org you should upload to lotw too. your right, it is a money hustle and hams that charge for lotw should be ashamed. 5 dollar here, there and everywhere adds up. ham scam.
Not all DXpeditions work FT8 to make money. The majority do it because that is where the demand is, but also to cover their costs. It is unfortunate that FT8 can be operated by a computer, but that’s progress 🙁
And yes, there are a few who are doing it to make money.
Caveat emptor!
AA7JV
Thanks for your DXpeditions and input George!
N0UN
I don’t begrudge an actual DXpedition $5 for an upload and a card, which seems to be about the going rate. If I want to play the awards game, and I do, it’s fair and they do have to meet expenses for every-increasing travel costs so that’s my part. I’ll give more for a 160 or 6m new band. *BUT* in my book it’s disgraceful for a local to charge for an upload. A card? Fine, cards aren’t free, envelopes aren’t free, etc, but just a straight LoTW upload? Take your $5 request and file it in a moist, dark place of your choosing
I wonder who found Monk Apollo’s CASH stash on Mt. Athos after he died? He took “pay to play” to a whole new level.
N0UN
ZD7Z qsl direct € 5,50!
FT8: 70% of total
Aart, I saw a picture of Elvira wearing a headset and thought, why?
Of her current 25,628 contacts – 23,361 (91%) are FT TXT!
Save your money.
N0UN
Totally agree !!!
Great points and great post.
The dumbing down isn’t just about the $$$. That has accelerated the transition to FT-only TXTpeditions. Some of it is also related to the lower skillset of hams now days incapable today of working a vfo in split, copying through noise and QRM, knowing how to copy and send cw, and having a competent and proficient station and antenna to work the dx. FT has done little for the dxing side of ham radio except to cheapen the experience. I’m not against FT8 as a mode but I think ssb and cw should count toward a higher status on dxcc honor roll. FT8 only ops are lying to themselves thinking they are dxing the way it’s been done for 100 years. Machines are dxing. Not hams. Not humans. And yes. It’s all about the dollars -OQRS LOTW etc. Well. That’s what they call progress. At least you said what had to be said.
Totally agree Joe
I don’t mind making a donation either before
a DXpedition or using OQRS after especially if it’s
Something I need. By I don’t pay $ for each individual
qso. So like a recent one I made 4 new band contacts and
did have some dupes on a couple bands.
I only made one Oqrs donation at the end.
73 K2HAT
Full auto, unattended FT8 contacts per the rules aren’t allowed to count for DXCC but the league has no real way to enforce that rule.
They say wanting and being able… but not wanting means being complicit.
Sergio IK8TNG Aversa
I would rather have them enforce the power rule. So many stations run illegal power. Especially on 30m I hear people tuning up amplifiers… 200 watts? Yeah right. Add a zero!
Not true, just have a look of the “duplicate-rate” – if it exceed 20% (or even 10% depends on the amount of FT-modes vs other modes) it is a big indicator of automated traffic.
You can sort the DXpedition statistics by duplicate-rate – do it and you see the black sheeps
Great job dear OM N0UN, in Italy two ” man of law” Falcone & Borsellino, said….
Follow the money refered to activity fraudolent of CRIME IN GENERAL.
You have touch the exposed nerve but how to write upper, the ARRL play and receive the biggest quote of all….
Sergio IK8TNG Aversa…..
I completely agree with that. I’ve just come back from the 4W8X DXpedition. 165000 QSOs in total. We paid attention to a very balanced ratio between the modes. Paul, DL5CW
Paul, 4W8X had some of the best stats I’ve ever seen! Great job, it was fun to chase you!
N0UN
Whilst FT8 as a technical mode has its merits, I totally agree that it is being used badly and should never have been allowed on the HF bands, VHF and UP I am all for it WHEN NEEDED, i.e. impossible for SSB/CW comms, i’m talking multi-thousand-mile contacts not a neighbour down the road (yes they have answered my CQ’s on 2mtr from 10miles away mehh just stupid) ….it is making people lazy just doing CLICK CLICK on the mouse and also becoming a money racket, as I stated recently on my blog page, I will donate if I WANT TO but no way will I pay for a confirmation
Not only the DX-Peditions make money. CQ and ARRL increased the number of awards sent to these enthusiastic DXers. This is a fact, isn’t it? If everybody’s happy, Rock&Roll is what we can expect.
By the way, to whom it may concern: I can print for you any award you want, just say the number of zones, bands, countries, states or counties. No QSLs or LoTW needed, I trust on you, my friend. Oh, don’t forget to send the green thing -wink-
I do not see any problems of this. FT8 is good way to chase DX for small pistols who owns small antennas instead of stacks and megawatts.
You are wrong, work lots of dx with only 100w likes TX5S , Just Need patience, this Is not Jobs all only for fun
Yes, but working a DX in a pile up on CW or SSB is almost impossible because of all lids tuning, sending on RX-freq, “polices” and just intentional QRM.
Those who can not work split has not figuered out how to work FT8. Its too hard for them 🙂
Some think most of the deliberate Phone & CW QRM is upset TXTers causing chaos, trying to force the DX off Phone & CW and over to FT8.
Worse DQRM I’ve ever heard was for Bouvet 3Y0J. Frustrated TXTers with no chance making it miserable for all.
N0UN
About 10 years ago, I speculated that we would eventually get to “Pay Per Q”. Looks like we are rapidly accelerating to that.
Well said….
I’ve never had one FT8 Contact and don’t intend to.
There are some that seem to just cruise around the Pacific Island’s living off their FT8 income.
Long Live CW…
80 years old. 90 % SSB cause my CW is too slow for the 30 + WPM.
Never tried FT8, I believe Amateur Radio consists of a Radio, Coax,
Antenna and a Licensed Operator with knowledge about Operating skills,
Rules and Regulations and the interest and desire to make Radio contact
with other licensed operators with the same interests.
83 years young and still hammering away on CW. FT-8 has not and will not see the light of day at this ham shack. Working my share of DX, SOTA and WWFF parks. de W6LEN / Jess
I was super excited to get Swains Island on 160m FT8, now after reading your blog, I have lost all excitement for my 160m QSO. Wasted time and effort. Oh well.
Didn’t know the FTs represent such a high share in DX ops.
I work only CW and SSB. Just wish that these modes still exist in the future as It would be a huge loss of human interaction without humans.
Cards and envelopes cost money, postage has skyrocketed, so I consider it okay paying for a direct card. I upload my logs to LOTW, clublog and QRZ as a courtesy to other hams. Personally, Initially, the argument for using LOTW was to save money and time. I will never pay for LOTW confirmation. This is a hobby!
well written and I fully agree.
Read here:
https://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-contest-and-dxcc-rules-now-prohibit-automated-contacts
So, what does ARRL really do? Were these polish Pacific-DXpeds acknowledged?
N0UN tells us the reason, why.
Clublog DXpedition statistics now show the duplicate QSO numbers. A percentage above 20% is a high suspicion for non-human fully-automated traffic.
I saw this kind of operation myself at 4W8X. The truth is: The so-called dupes are not DUPES. They are NOT-IN-LOG because the MSHV-software log the call independent if the caller got the RR73 or not. If he continues to call another contact happens. This way the call can be logged up to 10 times for NO-QSO. The count can be decreased by parameter in MSHV software to reduce the “dupe”-rate.
But dont worry, this problem can and will be fixed very soon so we won’t see such big duplicate rate in future but the fully-automated traffic still goes on.
This style of operation will sooner or later lead to 2 way fully-automated-contacts. Make your new DXCC while you sleep, while you are at work or out in restaurant. It is technically possible and probably it is already done this way. For me it is the end of ham radio. I have a webpage in mind: “We work your DXCC, just pay, we work….” Working order of course based on the amount of transferred money 🙂
Its up to us to stop this nonsense with our own reactions.
As long as most of the stations are joining this bullshit and working the DX in FT modes the desease will continue.
Isn’t the purpose of a DX-pedition to make as many QSOs as possible in a short a timeframe? As always, it seems that the public perception of a successful DX-pedition is one that makes a lot of QSOs. For example, a group that only makes 25K QSOs is viewed vastly differently than a group that makes 150K QSOs. To that end, using txt mode helps a group achieve a large number of QSOs – I have seen rates average well over 300/hour. I don’t know any CW operator that can make that average, much less keep it up for many hours over many days. Look – I don’t care for FT8/FT4, but it is there. I think time would be better spent having all the operators that use RHR to make what would be otherwise impossible contacts from their own QTH be removed from lists and the whole of RHR disallowed.
Looks logic but is wrong. I have been the 160m op of TX5K Clipperton. Look for the numbers yourself in clublog. Made 4000 QSOs and almost 1000 into Europe. What was the goal? To give Clipperton to a Maximum of people on 160m. I concentrated in CW with some Phone for the none-CW guys to give the country to as much people as possible. Tell me: for what award you needs Clipperton on 160m CW and Phone and FT8? Isnt it Just for your Ego? Some Work it on aall 3 modes and other cannot work it at all. Many Happy US guys now worked it in FT8 WHO Had it before in CW and/or Phone – Others stay empty including me. Fair? No but good QSO numbers. Anyway DXped make the rule and is Sometimes wise and Sometimes not. My rule: All time DXCC First, next All time Mode, next new band, difficult Bands preferred and for all categories difficult area come first QSO numbers Not First priority.
Witten from a mobile phone – sri for the typos
73 dl3dxx
I absolutely agree with Pete re: RHR. To me working a DX using one of the RHR rental remote shacks is PURE CHEATING, plain and simple! If you can’t hear ’em you can’t work ’em! The sad part is ARRL approved it….what’s next, RIB??? Isn’t it required for an operation to have both the equipment and operator physically “on” land for it to be approved? Remember how Martti, OH2BH and other members satisfied that criteria in the very 1st Scarborough Reef (BS7H) dxpedition? It would be interesting to read how it will “flourish”
If I’m inclined to donate to an expedition the first thing I do is find the % of ft8/ft4. In the case of TX5S they worked 51% ft8, so I sent 49% of an otherwise normal donation. in other words, a donation is proportional to the % of QSOs on valid modes. For extremely high % of ft8 I send nothing and ask for nothing. I never call a 3Z9DX operation, period. YL2 expeditions are almost as bad.
Add FT4GL to the money. From spots his computer has been on non-stop for days. Pieter
Look at YL2GM Yuris as VK9LA only 0 SSB and 525 CW. Over 20,000 FT8! Yuris no longer a ham radio operator only computer operator now.
Not for Italian IV3FSG Elvira another computer non-stops for 91% FT QSO’s as 5U5K. How this allowed?